Original message
| dwcaveney
 |  "Goodman versus Trane"
, posted Wed 13 Feb 10:25:  
If Trane is so great why did they put in a dangerous polypropelene heat exchanger in their High Efficiency Systems.
They wouldn't back them up when POS failed and endangered the lives their customers.
When ever you want service call from Trane all you have to do is file a federal class action law suit.
I bet the reason they have a decent system now is because all the parts they use are made by Goodman Manufacturing.
Anybody can buy a Goodman, and anybody can install one. Just read and follow the Installation Manual. I'm 59 disabled carpenter and my house mate is a lady librarian of 77 years, she helped me with sizing the unit, handed me tools, double checked all the literature, configured the dip switches and made sure the runs, dampers diffusers and thermostat were to her specifications. Goodmans are by far the best value on the market today, and you don't have to deal with some stuck up asshole who won't do the heat load calcs.
Goodman is an open market product unlike the cartel atmosphere that permeates the the HVAC/R industry. We love our Goodman and are proud of the job we did.
"It's hard to stop a Trane" and it's even harder to put out the attic fires they cause.
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Thu 14 Feb 09:38] |
| Replies:
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| Technician
| "Re(1):Goodman versus Trane" , posted Sun 17 Feb 19:20
I have been following all the excitement about Goodman vs. Trane. About 99% of the units I install are Amana(Goodman), and they are by far one of the best products in the industry. No one else will give you a lifetime unit replcement on their HE. I have VERY few callbacks on the units we install. I will however say that the older models GMP & GMPN were TERRIBLE units. This is why Goodman bought Amana. They realized that Amana had the best heat exchanger on the market. They also realized they had a BIG problem with their exchangers. Any one who says that Goodman/Amana is junk is a complete moron, and and has no experience with them.
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| NATEDOG
| "Re(1):Goodman versus Trane" , posted Wed 13 Feb 23:11
If you would work on the stuff you would see a differance. I work for a trane dealer and we also put in goodman for the cheap customers. I run a lot more warranty calls on goodman than i do trane. its not even close. i would never recommend a goodman unit to anyone, they are junk.
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| | dwcaveney
| "Re(2):Goodman versus Trane" , posted Thu 14 Feb 02:36:
Most of your warranty calls are caused by poor installation and you know it. Does the customer have to file a class action suit to have Goodman honor their warranty? Tranes are over priced, What part does a Trane have that a Goodman doesn't. Go ahead and work for the rich customers. While you're crawling around under their house like a boy, they are out to lunch with their friends making jokes about what an idiot you are. Do you go out with the firemen and put the attic fires out that the NOx rods cause?Trane probably tries to back charge the firemen for spraying water on their burning POS. What kind of furnace can you afford?
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Thu 14 Feb 02:49] |
| theduke03
| "Re(1):Goodman versus Trane" , posted Wed 13 Feb 19:17
I wouldn't install a Goodman anywhere. Not even in a tech school to be used for training. Not even in a picture. Not even in Bin Laden's cave
You can't put a price on comfort! Be Safe.
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| | dwcaveney
| "Re(2):Goodman versus Trane" , posted Wed 13 Feb 20:40:
Why?
You won't have to anyway, a 77 year old lady can install a
Goodman, without your help. They are so well designed she'll be able to service it too.
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Wed 13 Feb 21:50] |
| | tinner73
| "Re(3):Goodman versus Trane" , posted Wed 13 Feb 21:46
boy i'd love to see the pics.
union trained in Chicago
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| | dwcaveney
| "Re(4):Goodman versus Trane" , posted Wed 13 Feb 22:26:
I'll post some pics for you, when I find my camera and finish the bubble wrap. It's a pretty good installation. Got two returns, fairly even heat for a 1930s house. We followed the install manual, it fired right up and ran as dipped. Had a cheap t-stat and replace it with a RTH600B 5-2.
We are saving $175 a month over last years gas bill. A few years ago I hogged out an area under the house and put in a retaining wall. We put the new horizontal up there. When we got rid of the old Fraiser-Johnson and all the duct work, we ended up with a space for a mudroom, utility sink,toilet and a little work area. We had old knob and tube wiring, replaced that and put the ducts inside the joist bays. We got rid of the GI water pipes, re-coppered the whole house, added a walk in shower.
The Goodman really is a simple machine and works well. I see class action suits all the time against Carrier, Payne, Bryant, (poly heat exchangers 100,000) Trane (NOx rod, 450 attic fires) Goodman is the number 2 supplier of USA Furnaces. I don't see that much bad stuff about them. I think the whole thing is a crock of shit. With the quality capabilities these days, all the volume manufacturers have to make good products. Do you really need a Gucci pickup with a blond paint job to drive to the dump? Oh, one more thing, Goodman cabinets are the best, regardless of what color they are. I think the pro techs are leery about being seen installing a Goodman. If they do a good install the homeowner will never see them again.
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Thu 14 Feb 12:05] |
| static
| "Re(1):Goodman versus Trane" , posted Wed 13 Feb 18:13
WHAT? I don't understand.
What's so dangerous about a polypropylene laminated heat exchanger anyway? Perhaps you should review the facts of the situation before spouting off this sort of nonsense.
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| | static
| "Re(1):Yeh Static" , posted Thu 14 Feb 20:54:
Mr. Dwcaveney:
I have nothing against you or any other member of this board, or whatever brand they may prefer. Mainly I just didn't understand the motivation or reasoning of the post. No hard feelings.
Regarding the NOx rod thing: Those are furnaces built by Consolidated Industries, sold to other manufacturers and re-branded by such. They are the EXACT same furnace, which is a dedicated horizontal model and only sold in California during the 1980's. There are manufacturers that build furnaces for others who then put their own name on it, this is one such instance. Consolidated Industries (who also brought you the marvelous "Quattro" furnace) has went out of business at the end of the 1990's, largely as a result of that lawsuit (they filed bankruptcy to avoid having to pay out the settlement. Nice, huh.)
edit: I have my own personal feelings about Goonman and every other manufacturer out there, which I try not to make blatantly apparent here. I work on lots of Goofmans so I see the problems with them...not so much the newer ones (although they do seem to have a couple common problems also) but mainly the previous generation GMPs and GMPN's...the cracked collector boxes, the popped crimp rings, the burners that they had problems with...those were a really shoddy furnace. The new ones are a far improvement.
[this message was edited by static on Thu 14 Feb 21:02] |
| | djgilbert
| "Re(1):Yeh Static" , posted Thu 14 Feb 19:20
If you look at the recall, you'll notice that Goodman is in the same recall as the Trane, but alot more Goodman models are covered under this warranty then there are Trane models.
Don
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| | dwcaveney
| "Thanks Don" , posted Fri 15 Feb 11:34:
Thanks Don,
I know that, I was shooting a little angle to support my case. You caught me. lol
Appreciate your input.
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Fri 15 Feb 11:40] |
| | jbwstroker
| "Re(1):Yeh Static" , posted Thu 14 Feb 12:39
What's the beef? We install Goodman units as well as Trane units. Speaking of the newer Goodman units, they perform very well as does Trane as long as they are installed correctly. I run very few warranty calls on either of these systems, but of course I KNOW they're installed properly, not hacked in. I see alot of Goodman systems (because there are so many out there)and very few problems with them EXCEPT when someone else installed it and did a hack job installation. They had an issue recently with the Jaekel inducer motors, but they issued a service bulletin and corrected the problem and had no trouble getting the new motor under warranty. As an installer, I could even claim a labor allowance so NO cost was passed onto the customer. And all manufacturers have issues at one time or another once a new product hits the market. It's how they resolve these issues that matters. And I've never had a problem with Goodman on warranty claims. And their heat exchangers in their new furnaces are the best of the best. I have no problems with Trane as well. Damn good systems. Higher priced, yes. But I have faith in both. I sell 'em, I install 'em and I service 'em. And I have total confidence in ANY system I install. When I see people bashing the newer Goodman products as unreliable, I always think of the installation. Because they're more affordable, there are many more of their systems installed, and thus more appealing to lower end contractors trying to get business, and this is why you typically see more hack jobs done on Goodman systems. Trane, Lennox, etc are higher dollar equipment and usually sold by established companies which usually equals better paid and better qualified installers, meaning fewer callbacks BECAUSE of better installation practices.
"I am not responsible for mistakes other than my own. If in doubt call a pro!"
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| | northernfitter
| "Re(2):Yeh Static" , posted Sat 16 Feb 22:33:
DW I really dont get your hostility man. Carrier and Bryant faced a class action law suit. Whats new in America, lawyers love class action law suits it gets em rich fast. All manufacturers have issues at one time or another and that one has been resolved. Goodman is a decent furnace with one of the best heat exchangers out there but ripping into people on this site because they dont like them is rediculous. Trane is one of the most reliable furnaces out there no ifs and or buts and they are a competitor I am not backing "my" brand here. I don't understand your rage man but most of the technicians posting on here have years of experience in the trade much of us a lot on service and biases form because when you see certain brands year after year putting stuff out that customers regret and suffer from its hard to put that aside. You are basing your opinion on ONE furnace you have put in and thats fairly new, most of us are basing our opinions on thousands of furnace installed and serviced and how they stack up 10 or 15 years down the road. It's not a club or a deep dark plan. I am fking sick of going to peoples homes with 6 or 7 year old furnaces that are done because they bought cheap crap from someone who assured them the furnace was as good as the other 3 quotes she got for a $1000 more. Ya they warranty the heat exchanger so does everyone else. The kicker is you have to pay for techs to come out and rip apart a furnace right down to the cabinet to change it and they end up spending anywhere from $400-$700 doing it. Instead of ranting on here against tradesman who actually know and have been around for years dealing with this try opening your mind a little and understand if techs are on here they are on here to help people out where they can and hopefully save them money or prevent them from being screwed over.
edit: Just to correct some of the totally misguided things I have seen you post on here Goodmans heat exchanger warranty is not the best in the business its on par with most of the warranties out there and less than many. Goodman cabinets are not the best they are on par with most of the cheaper units and not at all with the high end ones. Several manufacturers, Carrier/Bryant and I think Trane as well give lifetime heat exchanger warranties if the customer passes away or sells the house before the heat exchanger goes it reverts to 25 years. Carrier and Bryant gave parts and labor on heat exchangers to get rid of the class action lawsuit and on that note most Carrier techs know that there were 2 major causes of those heat exchangers failing and one was related to install faults not design and the other was pressure and set up related. The scary thing here is you are ranting on here like your a skilled technician. It's nice that you want to help but try basing your help on knowledge and not opinion.
14years as a service tech in Ottawa and the valley. www.reliableheating.ca. For furnace manufacturer ratings go to
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/gas-furnaces/furnaces-repair-history-205/overview/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=furnace
[this message was edited by northernfitter on Sun 17 Feb 00:03] |
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