Original message
| nupie91
 |  "Problems with Goodman GMP075-4 gas furnace"
, posted Mon 18 Feb 11:11  
I have a Goodman GMP075-4 gas furnace. I have a 7 day programable thermostat that allows it to turn off and on. When I came home, the heat was not working. I immediately thought it was the thermostat nad replaced the thermostat, but that did not work. I eventually checked the curcuit breaker and although it was not tripped, I turn the breaker off and the unit starting humming sound while powering up (which I think is normal) and eventually it would come on and run the current progammed cycle, before shutting down again. Then the problem would repet itself again. I even changed the breaker in the event it was defective.
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Replies:
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| dwcaveney
| "make and model of t-stat" , posted Mon 18 Feb 14:21
please post make and model of t-stat
DW
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| 341
| "Re(1):Problems with Goodman GMP075-4 gas furn" , posted Mon 18 Feb 11:20
Look through the bottom door, you should see a blinking light. You need to count the blinks and get the lockout code.
www.hvactechgroup.com
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| | nupie91
| "Re(2):Problems with Goodman GMP075-4 gas furn" , posted Mon 18 Feb 12:07
Since my last post, I have not been able to the system to attempt to start. I located the indicator board in the lower half of the unit, and no lights are flashing at all.
For the record, the circuit breaker is running on a 20amp breaker. I found a website that states it should run on a 15amp. I'm not sure if this is a concern or not.
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| | dwcaveney
| "Re(3):Problems with Goodman GMP075-4 gas furn" , posted Mon 18 Feb 12:28:
If that is what the manufacturer states in the the documentation,(and I'm pretty sure it does)over current protection must be 15 amp period. If circuit was legally wired in the first place, 12 gauge wire, that's good (20 amp rated), just change out the breaker.
When you use improper overcurrent protection, it's like running a lamp off of a 20 amp breaker--if there is a circuit fault in the lamp which doesn't reach the threashold of the breaker, you got a fire started quicker than Jack London.
Is the 24vac transformer or board burnt anywhere?
TURN MAIN BREAKER OFF BEFORE ATTEMPTING CHANGE OUT!!
DW
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Mon 18 Feb 13:10] |
| | nupie91
| "Re(4):Problems with Goodman GMP075-4 gas furn" , posted Mon 18 Feb 12:48
Thanks for the notice. I will change the breaker right now and let you know what happends.
Ezra
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| | dwcaveney
| "check this out" , posted Mon 18 Feb 13:19:
Hi,
24 volt control transformers come in all kinds of sizes and voltage options.
If you have a all electric system then chances are you have 230 volt A.C. primary to 24 V.A.C. secondary.
If you have a gas system i'm assuming 120 volt A.C. primary to 24 V.A.C. secondary output transformer.
The above two are in no case all there are out there but the most common in the H.V.A.C. field.
These small control transformers are typically rated in VA ratings.
Make sure your transformer is showing its full voltage potential reading under full load on the output 24volt A.C. side. If it is not , then you either have a transformer that is to small from some addition to your system or wrong transformer replacement in past. You can check the amperage output with a amproble if necessary on secondary side. It should not go above the name plate rating. If it does, check to see if your equipments literature or supplier & manufacture can tell you what original equipment was designed for this system.
Sometimes the transformer will hum when under heavy load. Whatever part of the system that started drawing power when this occurse is usually your culprit to your problem.
Transformers can just age and go bad. (OR just go bad period) if it hums alot then it has weakly wrapped windings which can cause insulation failure within the coil.
But please do remember most transformers get louder the closer they come to their nominal designed conditions.
Sometimes if your Amprobe will not pick up the small signal you can wrap a wire around the wire you are checking 10 times and connect at ends and it will magnify your reading x10 so you can see it on your amprobe.
Transformers usually really stink when they go down. They have a real sharp burned smell that stands out quiet strongly. So Use your nose.
Basically this is what you will see in most home situations:
central heat only=20 va rating 24 volt transformer
central heat with cooling = 40 va rating 24 volt transformer
Heat Pumps and dual fuel systems typically use =50va output ratings or sometimes 60 va. because of all the extra devices they have to operate in the more complicated systems.
Remember any transformer should be seen and not heard if all is well.
Hope this helps: Jimiwane
DW
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Mon 18 Feb 13:21] |
| | nupie91
| "Re(1):check this out" , posted Mon 18 Feb 13:51
I have changed the breaker back to a 15amp from a 20 amp. The unit started up one time on the 20amp breaker and eventually turned off. I still do not see any sensor light on the board lit up, nor did I smell anything burning when the when the unit would start up. Based on your posting about tranformer, since it did not smell, I assume it is still good.
Is there a reset button in the system somewhere? By chance could it be the motor top section? This is where I spun the fan once and it came on. The humming sound only occured when the unit was trying to start. Once the system had started, it would sound normal.
My concern now is not making any noise when I attempt to start it now.
Ezra
PS. THe home in not all electric, thus it is running on 120volts.
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| | dwcaveney
| "reset" , posted Mon 18 Feb 14:14:
Most models will reset if you turn off the 120vac power swith for a few minutes, some may take an hour. Do you think it might be the capacitor? (can shaped component with wires near the blower motor) It gives a spike of voltage to start the motor. Be careful when working with capacitors, they hold a charge even after power is disconnected! Did you install the T-stat when the power was on? a no no.
Scott Meenen N3SJH, says in an excellent article explaining wire color codes used in HVAC systems the following:#$#[ ]#$#
#$#[Never assume that a wire color is correct for the function it should perform; check it out first The same goes for high voltage control wiring and motor terminals .
* {Terminal name}, {color}, {function}
* (R), Red, hot side of transformer.
* (C) Common side of transformer (See B)
* (Y), Yellow, Compressor activity (cooling or cooling and heating on a heat pump).
* (W), (W1), (W2) White, "Heat" (gas burner, oil burner , electric heat, (auxiliary heat on a heat pump including defrost output from the outdoor unit to activate electric heat and turn on the AUX. heat lamp). Note: some thermostats require a jumper from "W" to "Y" for heat pump operation.
* (G), Green, furnace blower fan. (needed for air conditioning, heat pumps and some electric furnaces). NOTE: on most thermostats the "G" and "Y" are connected together at all times when the fan switch is in the "Auto" mode!
* (O), Orange , Energize to cool (used for reversing valve on heat pumps)
* (B), Blue or Orange, Energize to heat (used on some systems, Rheem/Ruud is notorious for this).
* (B) or (X), Blue, brown or Black, common side of transformer. Needed on some electronic thermostats or if you have indicator lamps. Do not confuse with (B) Reversing valve (energize to heat) above. York and Trane like to use (B) as common.
* (E), blue, pink, gray or tan, emergency heat relay on a heat pump. Active all the time when selected, usually not used.
* (T), Tan or Gray, outdoor anticipator reset.
* Used on GE/Trane/American Standard and some Carrier Products. (W2), Pink or other color, second stage of heat (may be same as (W) on heat pump or fossil fuel system).
* (Y2), Blue or Pink, second compressor stage.
* (L), Blue, brown, tan or gray service indicator lamp.
* Numbers, see manufacture's diagrams but can be stages of electric heat especially on York/Borg Warner/Coleman-Evcon, Frasier Johnson/ Air-pro.
* (X2), Second stage of Electric Heat on GE/Trane/American Standard. See link above. Also used as indicator lamp or misc. contacts on other systems.
* Learn more about a Heat Pump Thermostat.
Warning: Do not confuse "B" Common
(GE, York and Trane)!
With "B" Energize reversing valve to heat (Rheem/Ruud/Weatherking)!]#$#
DW
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Mon 18 Feb 15:04] |
| | nupie91
| "Re(1):reset" , posted Mon 18 Feb 14:21
I'm not sure if it is the capacitor. If it is that is out my league and will have to call someone to come and service it.
The thermostat was in the on position when I cut main power off and switched the breaker back to a 15amp.
I going to disconnect the thermostat and install the old one since that was not the problem. The power will be off this time and I will let the breaker and thermostat stay in the off position for a 15 minutes before I attempt to power it back up.
I'll let you know what happen from there.
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| | Technician
| "Re(2):reset" , posted Mon 18 Feb 16:05
I noticed that you mentioned you had to spin the motor in the upper half of the furnace before it would start. Is this an up-flow furnace? If so the motor you spun by hand would be the draft inducer, indicating you need to replace the motor assembly.
Let me know if this helps.
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| | nupie91
| "Re(3):reset" , posted Mon 18 Feb 17:52
We solved the problem!
The motor/fan in the top portion of the unit was not functioning properly. We took the motor off and noticed the fan/wheel was not spinning freely. We sprayed a lubricant on it (WD-40) and was able to get the wheel moving freely.
The humming sound, was from the system attempting to turn the motor, however it couldn't due to lack of lubrication.
It's amazing how both system (One in the addict and basement) started giving us problems as soon as the 5 year warranty expired. THis summer I had to fix freon leaks in both units.
Thanks for your assitance in narrowing down the problem. I almost had to purchase a motor. I will probably go up in the addict and lubricate the motor in the upstairs unit, since it is scheduled to give me problems.
I will never by a new Goodman unit ever!
Thanks again!
Ezra
PS. I noticed that you are a Cowboy fan. We are one saftey/Cornerback away from the Superbowl. We will be there next season.
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| | jbwstroker
| "Re(4):reset" , posted Mon 18 Feb 20:41:
Were the freon leaks in the coils themselves or where the linesets are brazed to the coils? If they were from the linesets, then the leaks were likely from a poor installation and not the fault of the manufacturer's equipment. Also, were these units ever serviced during the five years since they were installed? If the answer is no, or only once or twice, don't blame the manufacturer. A little preventive maintenance goes a long way.
"I am not responsible for mistakes other than my own. If in doubt call a pro!"
[this message was edited by jbwstroker on Mon 18 Feb 20:43] |
| | nupie91
| "Re(5):reset" , posted Tue 19 Feb 23:03
I sorry missed your post. The freon leak in the upstairs heat pump unit was in the coil. The leaks in the down stairs unit was in a part that had 3 or 4 lines feeding into a plastic piece. It was leaking in 2 or 3 of the lines. THe HVAC mechanic showed me the areas and also stated that he had service two other homes in my community with similar leaks. THe previous owner had a lable on the unit that showed it was service once in the 5 years since it was installed. In my opinion, pre-maintenace would not of taken the equipment apart to discover were the unit was leaking in the downstairs unit. I say that because I had the service performed where I used to live, and did not open up my old unit. The HVAC mechanic was kind enough to show me what he did in my former residence.
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| | Technician
| "Re(4):reset" , posted Mon 18 Feb 18:14
Glad to hear everything worked out.
The new Goodman units are much better than the equipment you have. The GMP units were terrible. Now that they own Amana they relly are great units and the warranties are excellent. So many people condemn the Goodman products based on their older equipment.
P.S. Our Quarterback was a little distracted twords the end as well.
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| | nupie91
| "Re(5):reset" , posted Mon 18 Feb 18:20
I'll keep your thoughts in mind when they finally go out. Especially since they are owned by someone else. The warranty will play a major role in my decision.
Thanks for the update!
PS. Romo can't throw the ball and catch as well. We need a true #3 receiver. What we have currently won't start at number three for any other playoff caliber team.
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| | dwcaveney
| "Follow-up or down flow" , posted Mon 18 Feb 19:56:
Just a follow up. Is the furnace installed up flow or counter flow?
The manual says that one is has 4 position discharge option (up, down, left, right). Thought that hum you mentioned was the ID blower running, or transformer humming. Glad you got heat.
DW
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Mon 18 Feb 20:01] |
| | nupie91
| "Re(1):Follow-up or down flow" , posted Mon 18 Feb 23:25
Downstairs unit is Upflow the upstairs unit is laying on its side.
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| | dwcaveney
| "rookie" , posted Tue 19 Feb 10:13
I'm new. Should have picked that up from the post. You sounded pretty competant. I posted that 24vac info cause I thought you might have had some difficulty with the stat wiring. Number issue on forum is stat wire questions (usually answered by houston204) Funny how when one change a t-stat, other seemingly unrelated problems pop up.
Regards
DW
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| | cjett
| "Re(1):rookie" , posted Tue 19 Feb 10:38
If I were you, I would go ahead and order a new draft motor, it will be just a matter of time before it fails. WD40 is not really a lube either. If it stops working at a really cold time, it will be nice to have that motor ready to go. Just a thought.
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| | nupie91
| "Re(2):rookie" , posted Tue 19 Feb 22:52:
I appreciate the complement. I was always taught that if its broke, you might as well look into whatever the issue is, because if my be something real simple that you can fix.
In addition, you were correct in your assumption about the WD-40. It worked yesterday and through 3 of the 4 cycles of the thermosat today, before the Blower Motor (I think that is what it is called) started to freeze up again. Is there a part of the motor where oil or some other lubricant is stored that needs to refilled to keep the motor from freezing up? In addition, I think I will purchase a new Blower Motor just in case. Do you know the part number for this item and good place to order it from?
[this message was edited by nupie91 on Tue 19 Feb 23:05] |
| | northernfitter
| "Re(3):rookie" , posted Wed 20 Feb 00:18
Ventor motors are sealed bearing motors. Once they seize up they are done. Its nice when you can get them to run again for a bit especially if you can't get the parts right away but either way you need a new ventor motor. Sooner or later probably sooner it will quit and there will be nothing you can do.
14years as a service tech in Ottawa and the valley. www.reliableheating.ca. For furnace manufacturer ratings go to
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/gas-furnaces/furnaces-repair-history-205/overview/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=furnace
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| | nupie91
| "Re(4):rookie" , posted Wed 20 Feb 09:40
I heard the name of the part called couple of different things.
Vent motor
Blower motor
Are these two different items and if so what is the Mfr. Part # for hte vent motor?
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| | dwcaveney
| "parts list" , posted Thu 21 Feb 16:59
Closest I could get to your model is this guy. Probably can get the part. Sort of explaines the layout.
http://site.famousparts.com/goodman/PDF/IO-137CE-A.pdf
DW
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