Original message
| northernfitter
 |  "threader question for other techs."
, posted Fri 22 Feb 17:01  
I have never used any threaders other than the heavy machines that do all the work for you. I have recently taken on a water heater contract and don't feel like doing the drops in copper due to the cost of it but also don't want to spend 3k on a top of the line threader. I was looking at the ratchet threaders and and since most of the stuff I deal with in Resi is 3/4 or 1/2" and usually just redoing the drops to the furnaces or water heaters would the ratchet be fine or will I wish I had spent more after a day using it. I have a job coming up running 120' of 1/2" black for a mechanics air tools and was thinking now might be a good time to make a decision on this.
14years as a service tech in Ottawa and the valley. www.reliableheating.ca. For furnace manufacturer ratings go to
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/gas-furnaces/furnaces-repair-history-205/overview/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=furnace
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| 341
| "Re(1):threader question for other techs." , posted Fri 22 Feb 17:34
Our installer uses the same type of hand held threader and a standard tripod. It actually does up to 2". Our installer uses it for 1" and less without problems. The plumbing side of the business uses that big honkin rigid machine. They do alot of 2". I could barely lift it.
A rigid 600 would be good for you. Upto 1-1/4". Just in case you start doing pool heater hook-ups ;)
www.hvactechgroup.com
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| theduke03
| "Re(1):threader question for other techs." , posted Fri 22 Feb 17:20
Northernfitter I have used the ratchet type, rigid 3oo, and a handheld model I think is called a powerhandle. As long as you use a vice or a pipe vice the ratchet threader aint bad for a few joints. I wouldn't want to use it all day though. sometimes the rachet is sweet because you can thread a piece of pipe thats already hanging. Having the choice of all 3, I do use it for those smaller jobs.
You can't put a price on comfort! Be Safe.
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| | dwcaveney
| "Consider using galvanize pipe for air" , posted Fri 22 Feb 23:45:
The ratchet type are great for broken water pipes in the ditch as well. I would consider using galvanized NPS, for pneumatic power due to vapor in compressed air.
We used to build condo projects using a 1200 cfm Leroi, 25 stations, in plastic. The union guys didn't have to bring their own portables. We had a big Manitowoc high lift running around, never broke a pipe. Ah the good old days, when a man could make a living without a truck full of tools.
Don't tell anybody but when I do gas, I go to home depot, give them a list, they cut and thread it for nothing while I'm next door eating breakfast. Use the ratchet. Where you are going to store the gigantic pos anyway? Oh, We had a guy in West Marin working alone got pounded to death by GD thing. They found a bloody mess on the subfloor, three days later that used to be a human being, machine still running.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_man's_switch
DW
[this message was edited by dwcaveney on Sat 23 Feb 02:42] |
| | northernfitter
| "Re(2):threader question for other techs." , posted Fri 22 Feb 23:36
I am going to do a job for an automechanics garage he wants to have steel half inch run around his shop for his air compressor to get the rubber hoses that are all over the place out of the way and have 6 stations for tying into the line. I am thinking that the ratchet threader might be ok for this but it will be a lot of work even with half inch. I will probably just rent the ratchet for the job and buy the power threader in a couple months. Which means sucking it up and bearing through a tough day with the ratchet.
14years as a service tech in Ottawa and the valley. www.reliableheating.ca. For furnace manufacturer ratings go to
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/gas-furnaces/furnaces-repair-history-205/overview/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=furnace
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| | dcdraftworks
| "Copper?" , posted Sat 23 Feb 09:31
There is some new PVC piping that is supposed to be okay for air lines but I hear it costs as much as black pipe. Less labor to install, though. PVC in general is not acceptable by OSHA and many local codes. Lucky for you this is an all new installation so you can do it right the first time. Make sure you pitch the pipe in the proper direction and have your drops go up, then down. Get good instructions because running air lines isn't the same as water pipe. I'm having to redo our system because the last guy didn't understand air lines and screwed everything all up.
In addition, at the low ends and tees, use a bleeder valve. It looks like a tire stem and operates the same way - push in and air will blow out. Make sure they are pointing down. This will help bleed off excess water that collects in piping.
From contributor M:
If it were my shop, I would install only copper pipe. Why? Because condensation is the biggest problem in compressed air systems. If it is not all removed (which it cannot be unless you spend a small fortune), that water will lie in your piping and over time will rust black pipe. This sludge will end up in your piping and if you intend to use this for finishing...
Further, the time and money you will save on installation should be reason alone. Copper can handle anything you will throw at it in a real world application and can take standing water. Take the money you saved and buy a good refrigerated drier which actually does what it says. It cools the air as it goes through and condenses the moisture to droplets before removing it - *much* more efficient. Also read rules 2 and 4 again. The piping arrangement with the tees is right on the money, but add blow down valves at the bottom of those tees to facilitate removal of said crud and corruption.
My research shows only type L and K copper pipe is acceptable. Type M is too light a gauge as per my local air compressor guys. Also, OSHA says PVC is a no go. There is a reference to it on the OSHA site.
From contributor L:
We use copper. If it gets hit it bends, while PVC cracks or shatters. Copper doesn't rust and is easy to work with. We ran a loop system with short branches. Put a few ball valves in for isolation if you need to work on the system and still use part of it. We have a refrigerated drier. The only problem it's had is kicking out when it gets really hot. We filter the air going into the compressor room and have an air-to-air cooler after the compressors, then a coalescing filter, then the refrigerated drier, then the main regulator. We also have filters ahead of the expensive equipment and another coalescing filter at the paint booth. All airdrops go up off the main lines before going down. The main lines slope to drain valves. The compressor manufacturers can provide you with information booklets. I would locate my compressor room on an outside wall so I could pull in and exhaust outside air in the summer. I’d exhaust into the shop in winter to save the heat.
Elmo
dcdraftworks@sbcglobal.net
CAD Drafting of Mechanical Systems
Marin County California
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| | SharpShooter
| "Re(3):threader question for other techs." , posted Sat 23 Feb 00:29
We also have a Rigid, North. It's rotten, heavy and just a pain to deal with. But it does the work quick and nice. I'd bite that bullet and forget the ratchet. If you're gonna do lots of g.p., you'll make that money back in saved labor. Plus, it'll give you guns carrying that beast!
"I never met a Smartvalve I didn't change."
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| | northernfitter
| "Re(4):threader question for other techs." , posted Sat 23 Feb 10:57:
Problem right now is we are in our slowest time of year and dollars are tight, largely because I started the company just after the busy season. Wasn't my choice, Direct Energy was offering severance packages and then were going to lay off the junior guys to get there numbers so I took it and opened late november. I am probably going to go with a galvanized setup if he is willing to pay the extra, up at each T then down with a 1ft drip leg at the bottom of each drop. They had a black pipe system that lasted 50 years but rotted out where it was run in the garage floor. He is firmly against copper because he is concerned about vibrations in the line among other things. Personally I think as long as its installed right the galvanized will be fine long after he is dead and gone.
edit:was just talking to my father a mechanical designer for 35 years who said to just do it in steel. Its only a small garage and the last steel system he had lasted over 50 years and only really failed where it was in the concrete. Something about the compressor this guy has will over time coat the inside of the pipe with oil due to a setup they have that is designed to help keep the air tools lubricated. I should have called him right from the start :P. As far as the threader goes will be buying the good one soon enough but for now will rent one. I just bought a 14' enclosed trailer and am setting it up to be able to set up the threader in it. For you southerners threading pipe in -18 weather with the wind ripping at ya sucks ass lol. Thanks for all the advice, I am lazy and out of shape the ratchet will be good for me for a day lol.
14years as a service tech in Ottawa and the valley. www.reliableheating.ca. For furnace manufacturer ratings go to
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/gas-furnaces/furnaces-repair-history-205/overview/index.htm?resultPageIndex=1&resultIndex=1&searchTerm=furnace
[this message was edited by northernfitter on Sat 23 Feb 11:06] |
| | yuri
| "Re(5):threader question for other techs." , posted Sat 23 Feb 13:48
When I was 18 and an apprentice I hauled a dozen full lengths of 2" black onto a roof with a rope and threaded it all by hand. Journeyman just doped it up and screwed it together. The exercise is good for ya. I'm told old for that biz now. Just use the brains instead.
Good Luck
Yuri
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