Original message
| syachah
 |  "Chiller cooling capacity"
, posted Tue 1 Apr 01:52  
Dear all
Our factory use TRANE Chiller ( RTHD unit ) water cooled liquid chiller.The chiller capacity is 280 tons with 190 kw.
Evaporator design flowrate is 454 usgpm.
Evap enter design : 53.7 F
Evap leave design : 39.0
My question is , how to determine the cooling capacity? and in some case , why the chiller couldnt achieve the setting temperature ( 39 F) eventhough the running ampere is almost to maximum 100% ( 307.50 ampere )
Best regards
syachah
syaChAh
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| Chiller Guy
| "Re(1):Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Tue 1 Apr 19:21
One formula for calculating tons is:
Design GPM (454)x Temp diff in and out (53.7 - 39.0 = 14.7) divided by 24
454 GPM x 14.7 Delta T = 6673.8 / 24 = 278.075 tons at design
You can get the tons out of the unit with vaious temperatures and various flows but you can only get one set of design conditions. As mentioned by another poster you need to look at the entire chiller operating conditions in order to evaluate the units performance or determine a problem. All the info you need is right there on the control panel.
All refrigerants are safe - All refrigerant are dangerous. The difference is YOU !!!
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| | syachah
| "Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Wed 2 Apr 02:49
Dear Chiller guy/jojo and james mo
Can i share with you , what is actually happen with my chiller based on the actual following data:
Evap Entering water Temp: 56.5F
Evap Leaving Water Temp:48.9F
Condenser Entering Water Temp: 93.0F ( full load design: 87 F)
Condenser Leaving Water Temp:99.6F( full load design 97F)
Average line cureent : 100% ( full load design : 307.50 amp)
Condenser Approach Temp:3.2F
Condenser flowrate design at full load design: 801.9 us gpm
compressor KW design: 190 kw
From The formula:
For evaporator
454 GPM x 7.6 delta T/24=143.7 tons
My question is why chiller generate only 143.7 tons of capacity but at the same time, he operating ampere is 100% of load and reached the design operating ampere.
Why the chiller also difficult to reach the set point temp ( 39 F) when the compressor in full running ( 100% load).Is it becouse of increasing of water flowrate? or any other reason for this scenario?
syaChAh
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| | Chiller Guy
| "Re(1):Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Wed 2 Apr 19:48:
The first thing you have to do is get your tower water temp down to 85-87 inlet temp (design). Next is to measure the water flows to insure you are getting enough through the shells (or too much which sounds likely). Somewhere you (or your facility) should have a copy of the start up log or maintenance manual for this unit. The SU log should show the water flows and pressure drops through the bundles at start up. If you have a manual it may have the flow charts for your unit but you have to pick out the bundles you have on your machine to use the chart. This info is in the model number. If all else fails send me model & serial number.
Run a log on the machine! If you are keeping logs on past performance, check to see what has changed. If you are not logging the unit I suggest you start. I really helps in these situations to know what it was doing yesterday, or last week.
Also, what is you voltage? I figure you are picking up 143 tons and rejecting 222 tons. However, this is based on design flows which you may not have. Where are you getting the approach temp? and what is the evap approach?
All refrigerants are safe - All refrigerant are dangerous. The difference is YOU !!!
[this message was edited by Chiller Guy on Wed 2 Apr 19:50] |
| | syachah
| "Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Thu 3 Apr 05:19
Dear Chiller Guy
Definitely, I have daily record for the chiller and still keep it in the files.I have compared the chiller reading from the past, and what i get is some of the reading is abnormal, especially for Evap in/out, cond in/out and also the running ampere.The chiller efficiency also high.For your information, i have changed the lub oil, refrigerant , filter and tube cleaning on june 2006.
I have recognized that , for the past 3 month my production area have increase their process and at the same time the chilled water consumption at production area also inccrease.But the concern is my chiller cooling capacity is decrease.
You have mentioned to decrease the tower water inlet to 85-87.I'll carry out the condenser tube cleaning , and do you know any other way to decrease the tower temperature except mechanical cleaning?.
I have checked in the manual regarding the pressure drop and water flow chart. is it pressure drop in ( ftH2O) and water flow in ( GPM )?.This flow chart can determine the actual flowrate for evaporator?How to use this flow chart? is it check and determine the delta P for evaporator first? then refer to chart?.Do you have any formula to get the water flowrate without the chart?
below is my chiller design specification , i check it in manual:
-chiller model: RTHD
-Comppressor:D1
-Evaporator:F1
-Condenser:F2
-capacity:280.20 tons
-efficiency:0.678 kw/ton
-PLV:0.555kw/ton
-refrigerant charge:625.0 lb
-Evap leaving Temp:39 F
-Evap entering temp: 53.70F
-Evap flowrate: 454 gpm
-evap pressure drop: 4.60 fth2o
-evap passes : 3 pass
-evap fluid type: water
-condenser entering temp:87 F
-Condenser leaving temp:97F
-Condenser flowrate: 801.9 gpm
-condenser pressure drop:11.5 ftH2O
-condenser passes: 2 pass
-Condenser fluid type:water
-Condenser fouling factor:0.00025 hr-sqft-deg F/btu
ELECTRICAL
415v/50hz/3
unit power: 190 kw
min circuit ampacity:384.40 amp
run load amps:307.50 amp
Below is the chiller reading on 2/4/2008
Average line current: 100%
Evap Enter: 57.9F
Evap leave: 49.1F
Evap sat rfgt temp:44.7F
Evap rfgt pressure:39.8 psid
Evap approach temp:4.4F
Expansion valve position : 38.2 %
EXpansion valve position step:2430
Evap rfgt liquid level:0 in
Cond enter: 93.2 F
Cond leave: 99.2 F
Cond Sat.rfgt temp:102.4F
Cond sat rfgt pressure: 129.6 psid
cond approach temp: 3.3 F
sytem rfgt diff.pres: 88.2 psid
oil pressure:120.2
compressor rfgt discharge temp:121.2
discharge superheat:19.3
L1/L2/L3:95.8/96.9/97.7
L1/L2/L3 ( ampere):303/300/310 ampere
I hope the information above is enough for analysis.
Your information and knowledged very usefull for me:)i really apprecuiate it.thanks
best regards
syachah
syaChAh
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| | Chiller Guy
| "Re(1):Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Thu 3 Apr 18:26
Syachah,
You mentioned changing the refrigerant and oil in 2006, why? Look on your past logs and see if the PSI drop through the tube bundles have changed. Your info tells me you should have a 2 PSI drop through the evap and a 5 PSI drop through the cond. What do you really have?
Cleaning condenser tubes will not lower the water temp entering the tubes. This is function of tower operation. How clean is the tower? Are all the fans running up to speed? Is the fill clean? Are the spray nozzels clean and giving a good spray pattern? Is the sump free of trash and microbial growth? Are there any dampers that could be closed or any other restrictions to air flow? The water temp in and out of the TOWER should be at LEAST 10 degrees different. The tubes appear to be fairly clean at this time.
You mention that the facility has grown and is using more chilled water. Are you pumping more water through the evap than before? What is the pressure drop (evap) and ft h20 from the chart?
I am suspecting that you may have more load than the chiller can handle at the conditions you want.
All refrigerants are safe - All refrigerant are dangerous. The difference is YOU !!!
|
| | syachah
| "Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Fri 4 Apr 04:32
Dear Chiller Guy
Actually , on 2006 we have done the annual servicing for chiller.Do you know , when the refrigerant and oil have to change?Actually i have reclaimed the refrigerant, but the oil is totaly changed.What is life span for R-134 and the lubricant?
May I have the Pressure drop and water flow chart from u.I have the chart in the manual, but the chart is very simple , i couldnt plot and get the accurate parameter.
The chiller serial number is U03H01695 and U03H01693.
Best regards
Syachah
syaChAh
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| | Chiller Guy
| "Re(1):Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Fri 4 Apr 10:26
Syachah,
I am now a bit confused about your problem. You gave me 2 serial numbers for chillers so I assume you have two chillers, correct? Are both of these chillers giving you the same problems (low tonnage)or only one of them exibits problems? If they both are coming up short I feel you have SYSTEM problems ,not chiller problems. If only one unit is giving the problem then compare the operation of the two to isolate the issues.
The flow charts in the manual are all you need and yes they are very simple. The evap flow is at the bottom of the chart which makes it a bit hard to read but is accurate.
As for changing the oil and refrigerant. You change the oil when the test results indicate it needs changed (may go for years)and the refrigerant never gets changed unless something happens to contaminate it. There are filters on the unit that get changed on a regular basis. Its a fairly maint free unit.
I suggest you get a Trane service tech to go over the SYSTEM with you and get you back to design conditions. Trying to solve your problems from 8000 miles away would take some time and it sounds like you need to keep production quality up. You could also pick the tech's brain on some of the questions you have.
Good Luck
All refrigerants are safe - All refrigerant are dangerous. The difference is YOU !!!
|
| | syachah
| "Re(2):Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Wed 9 Apr 20:56
Dear chiller guy
Thank for the good information and knowledge.
I have the answer for this problem.probably the problem came from the system not the chiller itself.
Best regards
syachah
syaChAh
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| Jojo98
| "Re(1):Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Tue 1 Apr 12:42
Need to know Condenser water temp's and Chiller water temp's (Actual)Is this chiller for comfort cooling or industrial process?
|
| | syachah
| "Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Wed 2 Apr 03:05
Dear Jojo
Actually my system here use for both enviroment.We use this system for air conditioning ( AHU and FCU )and at the same time also we use for industrial process. That why The evaporator setting temperaure is 39F.
syahah
syaChAh
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| | james mo
| "Re(2):Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Tue 1 Apr 20:37:
You need to determine your actual evaporator water flow rate.
Another day in paradise
[this message was edited by james mo on Tue 1 Apr 20:38] |
| | syachah
| "Chiller cooling capacity" , posted Wed 2 Apr 03:00
Dear James mo
I don't know how to determine the actual evaporator flowrate.I dont have any formula to calculate the flowrate based on the data from the chiller display.
Best regards
syachah
syaChAh
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