Trane ionizing wire problem - http://www.hvacmechanic.com/ Forums
Original message
| vssman
 |  "Trane ionizing wire problem"
, posted Sat 26 Apr 14:51  
I have a trane electronic air cleaner about 4 yrs old on my AC only system. The lugs on the end of the wires seem to corrode away during the cooling season and then break. This has happened since new with the first years use only having 1 wire broken but I now have 12 wires broken (more than half). Last year all of the wires were replaced with new ones and again 12 broken wires were found when the cells were removed for cleaning this spring. This is getting expensive as I cannot purchase these on my own and require a service call. Has anyone heard of a similar prublem or know what may be causing the issue? Apparently this problem is new to Trane and they don't know what can be the problem. I originally thought it may be from the dishwasher cleaning solution but the last set of wires were brand new (uncleaned) and again they've broken too. The wires themselves are unbroken, just the outer edges of the lugs are 'dissolved' away.
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Replies:
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| theduke03
| "Re(1):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Sat 26 Apr 15:54
Greetings from CT. I can honestly say I've never heard of that. It seems like something in the air is causing it. Do you live near the shore?, Is unit in the attic? I'm also thinking about condensation. You should open up your air handler and look for signs of water being where it shouldn't be. Maybe in the winter warm air rises into your ducts and air handler and condenses in the cold attic, causing corrosion. Maybe the condensate drain is plugged or improperly pitched causing an overflow into unit
Some of the pictures displayed here are brought to you by Houston204. Be Safe.
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| | vssman
| "Re(2):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Sun 27 Apr 19:06
I'm about 15-20 miles in land from the shore via as the bird flies - there isn't any salt in the air this far inland. The unit is attic mounted which has led to another issue. If I do not cover all of the air vents the unit will have a lot of condensate collect in the branch lines (when the unit was first installed I did not cover the registers and drained about 1 - 2 gallons of water from the branch flex line the furthest from the unit). The unit is well insulated as I've covered the main, branches and return with R13. I have a box built around the air handler made out of 4" foam insulation to help insulate the cold air from the unit. My heating contractor suggested the above set up as he used to install A/C systems. He had seen condensation in many systems that are attic mounted. The installer (not my heating contractor) has the air handler/filter placed over our attached 2 car (unheated) garage. The house isn't overly damp. I can't imagine why the lugs are corroding. Anyone have any idea what the lugs are made of? I know the wires themselves are tungsten. If I can't get resolution on this from Trane I am open to suggestions to a good air filtration set up that will remove pollen and mold. I've been looking into 5" pleated filters and a UV light. Again this would be a last resort. I would assume the UV light would go after the filter but before the coil in the air handler. I only see about 1 - 2 feet of area between the filter housing and coil in the air handler. Would this be an acceptable mounting place for the UV light (again only as a last resort)? Are there any other electronic filtering systems that do not use ionization wires or at least one that has 'reasonably' priced replacement wires? Thanks for any input...
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| | theduke03
| "Re(3):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Sun 27 Apr 23:47
Obviously your problem is moisture, not mold or pollen.You shouldn't have to add additional insulation to unit/ducts. If I had to service it, I'd be pissed about removing all that insulation in the attic on a hot day, and I wouldn't put it back. Do you have properly working and sized bathroom exhaust fans? I've seen this problem in houses where people didn't use the exhaust fans. All the steam from showering goes right up the vent. I will venture to guess your bathroom had the most water coming out of the vent? The cause of this problem is air from your house rising into ducts where the moisture condenses and is trapped (during the winter). Try closing your vents when cooling season ends and remove the unneccessary insulation for your service tech. Electronic air cleaners suck anyway. If it were mine I'd rip out the elements and shove a pleated media filter in the box.
Some of the pictures displayed here are brought to you by Houston204. Be Safe.
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| | vssman
| "Re(4):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Mon 28 Apr 09:25
I have a Nutone exhaust fan in the bathroom. It's one of the larger CFM models (round style). After showering we continue to run the fan and will open the window for about 10 minutes to help remove the moisture. It's raining pretty hard out today and the moisture level in the house is currently 55%. No, the water does not come out of the bath register. It actually comes out of one in a bedroom farther down stream - it's the last branch off of the main trunk. The registers are covered with plastic and taped shut/sealed once the cooling season ends. The A/C installer suggested I add the insulation as a remedy to help with the problem. I leaning toward the pleated media as well. Should I also look at a UV bulb to control any mold growth? I ask as I'm allergic to pollen and the wife is allergic to mold. Supposedly the electronic filter removes both (only if it's working...). Thanks for your insight.
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| | theduke03
| "Re(5):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Mon 28 Apr 18:48
Personally I wouldn't suggest the uv light unless it's something you really really want. They're costly and bulbs need to be replaced every 1-3 years. The solution to mold is to control the moisture. No moisture = No mold. I have more qustions. Did you notice water coming from vents in winter, summer, or both? I would like to resolve this issue for you so I'm thinking hard here.
Some of the pictures displayed here are brought to you by Houston204. Be Safe.
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| | Houston204
| "Re(6):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Tue 29 Apr 07:53
What is the rated voltage for the EAC? Where is it getting it's power?
"Tip of the Day" Remember to remove power first.
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| | vssman
| "Re(7):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Tue 29 Apr 09:16
'duke:
The water drips from the last register in the supply truck only in the very late fall - before the heat is on regularly. I try to seal the registers before that time; however, I do run the unit on 'fan' throughout the day in the fall to help remove the rag weed pollen and dry the ducts. If I recall correctly. last fall the A/C was on for quite some time and then it turned cold quickly. The only reason for a UV light is to control any mold growth in the air handler. There is a little bit in there now on the bottom of the air handler and along the lower edge of the insulation inside of it. The wife is allergic to mold while the child and I are very allergic to pollen. I agree that as little electronics as possible (EAC, UV, etc...) would be best.
'Houston:
The EAC gets it power direct from an outlet. It is not controlled by the air handler. The installer was told by Trane to look and make sure the EAC is actually shutting off when there is no air flow. The Tech is questioning if the unit is staying energized all of the time thus overheating the wires.
Thanks for your help. I'm getting more info from these types of forums than from the installer or Trane. Will a 5" pleated filter remove the same pollen (size and amount) that the EAC does? I'd only have to get a new filter door as the housing is made either for an EAC or 5" pleated unit.
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| | theduke03
| "Re(8):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Tue 29 Apr 19:29:
I'm gonna "fallback" and say that I now think your condensate pan/drain are plugged, or overflowing due to improper pitch. Also possible that water is being pulled off the coil and soaking inside of unit if coil is dirty. Can you open up air handler and look at condensate drain pan? Dump water in it and see if it drains within a minute or two. Also check if water level in pan is higher on the drain side or at least level. If it's higher on the far side then unit is mounted incorrectly and must be adjusted. If it's dirty looking it will need a brush and flush. You can clean out the drain/trap by taping vent shut and putting a wetvac to the outside end of drain. Also verify if there is a trap and vent on condensate drain(near air handler). If yes then verify that the vent is downstream of trap not before. While you're in the air handler check coil for dirt/blockage on both sides.
All of these things can cause overflows so I must know the status. Trane will never help you. Tech support is non-existant.
Some of the pictures displayed here are brought to you by Houston204. Be Safe.
[this message was edited by theduke03 on Tue 29 Apr 19:32] |
| | vssman
| "Re(9):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Wed 30 Apr 09:13
OK - here's what I found... Air handler is pretty clean inside. I opened the unit at the EAC, coil and fan assembly. There is a little 'white' residue on the metal surfaces but no black mold, etc... The air handler drains good. There is a trap and it's not blocked. The only air vent after the trap is the connection to the overflow pan under the entire unit. In other words the overflow pan shares the same drain as the air handler - I thought these were supposed to be separate??? I did find a crack in the drain line at a 90 deg elbow about 6 feet away from the air handler. This also was cracked last year and the installer replaced the elbow and was supposed to properly pitch the drain line. I guess he forgot to pitch it correctly. However, I haven't seen any dripping from the cracked elbow all winter (The ceiling in the garage has a hole in it from last years crack/water damage that I'm going to be fixing this year). To me, it looks like I have to repair the elbow and properly pitch the pipe with stantions every couple of feet. There is nothing holding the drain pipe at the correct level for about 15 - 18 feet - this length includes the elbow distance meaning 6 feet out from the air handler and another 9 - 12 feet to the first pipe stantion. There appears to be a block of wood under one part of the pipe before the elbow that may have fell over from the vibration of the garage door. Not the proper way to install the drain pipe if you ask me... The screws on the controls from the thermostat are a little bit rusty - mainly surface rust. Back to the elbow - there must ahve been standing water that froze to crack the pipe. I can't say how much or if it fully blocked the elbow but I'd imagine I would have seen water dripping through the hole in teh ceiling if it was a measureable amount - enough to go all the way back to the air handler. Also the other elbows in the drain line closer the the elbow (there are 2 to get the drain line under the overflow pan) are OK.
Yesterday, the installer dropped off a 5" pleated filter as the replacement EAC was damaged in shipment. He fitted the filter in the EAC housing and 'made' a filter door out of bubble wrap so that I could 'run' the unit to filter the pollen out of the air. The bubble wrap is tightly sealed around to the outside but not to the filter. Not sure how much 'filtering' that 'set up' will actually do...
It's frustrating. Trane tells me I must go through the installer but the installer isn't being helpful. It took over 2 weeks to get the replacement EAC cells to me. There were holes in the shipment boxes (I saw the repair man bring the boxes into the house) that should have suggested possible damage in transit. All in all, the unit cools the house quite well. I just have to get past this problem and all will be good...
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| | theduke03
| "Re(10):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Wed 30 Apr 19:07
Your observations about the drainage sound thorough and normal. As far as the EAC problem I'm now stumped and feeling stupid but it was worth a try.
"My dad was the most feared furnace fighter in Northern Indiana."
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| | vssman
| "Re(2):Re(10):Trane ionizing wire problem" , posted Thu 1 May 15:45
Thanks anyway for your time. I'm definately going to have Trane replace the EAc cells with new ones under warranty. If the wires break again (that would be the third time) then I'll explore a pleated media filter.
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