ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short cycle - http://www.hvacmechanic.com/ Forums
Original message
| jzhjr
 |  "ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short cycle"
, posted Thu 8 May 21:24  
I have an ICP Tempstar outside unit
MODEL #TCH242AKD1, S/N EO52735309, P/N 328876-4191
AIR HANDLER # EBX4800A
THERMOSTAT IS MULTI-STAGED BRAEBURN MODEL 5200 PROGRAMABLE
It appears to be short cycling, when it runs I have 26vac on both sides of contactor.
If I manually press it in, it runs & cools.
It cycles off before reaching set temp, it only seems to run for about 5 minutes not more than 10 minutes.
When off there is no 26vac on sides of contactor.
I removed low pressure switch contacts from circuit board no joy, I jumpered low pressure switch terminals on circuit board no joy, read out ohms on press sw was about .2 on a fluke 77, read for continuity and it was closed, not infinity.
While it was runing I added enough R-22 to raise low pressure about 4 psi on the low side. OAT was +92 degrees F, starting low pressure was about 45, I don't remember the hi pressure reading!!!
From other posts I'm thinkinking time delay relay or something from the air handler or thermostat
So where do I go from here?
JZHJR
|
|
Replies:
|
| theduke03
|  "Re(1):ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short"
, posted Thu 8 May 21:33
Adding freon is not a troubleshooting technique. You have a switch opening in the low voltage circuit. This can easily be found with voltmeter. Run unit and when it shuts down, check across each switch. The open switch will read 24v. Usually there's only a low pressure switch or high pressure switch or both.
Is there a time delay relay?
Is this a heatpump?
Is 24v still present between Y and C when unit shuts off?
If you don't know what you're doing you should call a pro.
"My dad was the most feared furnace fighter in Northern Indiana."
|
| | jzhjr
| "Re(2):ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short" , posted Thu 8 May 22:14
This is a heat pump, I didn't see a hi press switch.
Not sure if there is a time delay or where the time delay relay would be! It has 2 circuit boards, 1 is a defrost control, not sure what the other is?
It also has a condesate overflow shut-off switch.
I'm planning on taking a vacuum to suck out pipe to make sure its not clogged.
JZHJR
|
| | theduke03
| "Re(3):ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short" , posted Thu 8 May 22:16:
It's not the overflow switch. It's the defrost board. Refer to post below about having a pro correct the charge.
"My dad was the most feared furnace fighter in Northern Indiana."
[this message was edited by theduke03 on Thu 8 May 22:19] |
| | jzhjr
| "Re(2):ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short" , posted Thu 8 May 21:57
Thanks I'll check for low voltage opens in the morning, I assumed servicing was low before I began troubleshooting. The unit is only 2 years old, no evidence of leaks.
What I did notice that I was unfamiliar with is that it had an extra set of service fittings above the valved ports? Are most new units equipted like that?
Thanks for your help I'll post my findings tomorrow
JZHJR
|
| | theduke03
| "Re(3):ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short" , posted Thu 8 May 22:08:
Most heat pumps are. Could be the defrost control board too. If you raised the suction pressure then your system is now overcharged and you can expect premature compressor failure if not corrected and soon. Should be done by pro who can interprate pressures and temp readings. While he's there he can find out the original problem in a minute or two and then you will be good as new.
"My dad was the most feared furnace fighter in Northern Indiana."
[this message was edited by theduke03 on Thu 8 May 22:13] |
| | jzhjr
| "Re(4):ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short" , posted Thu 8 May 22:31
Should I remove the existing board & take it in for a replacement or would it be enough to just get the part numbers off of it? I'll also take some digital pictures of it!
JZHJR
|
| | theduke03
| "Re(5):ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short" , posted Thu 8 May 22:44
Do both.
"My dad was the most feared furnace fighter in Northern Indiana."
|
| | jzhjr
| "Re(6):ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short" , posted Thu 8 May 23:01
For correcting the charge the manual suggests using the superheat method, I've normally just used the gauges! I know I dumb assed it by just adding refrigerant, I was in a hurry as this is a rental property!! Now I'll have to go back & do it right. Is the superheat method preferred for newer units?
Again thanks for all your advice.
JZHJR
|
| | theduke03
| "Re(7):ICP Tempstar compressor/condensor short" , posted Thu 8 May 23:21
Whatever the manual says. If it has a txv then you would charge by subcooling.
"My dad was the most feared furnace fighter in Northern Indiana."
|
| | jzhjr
|  "Help please! Houston 204 Tempstar short cycle"
, posted Fri 9 May 11:40
Well I blew out the evaporator tray & line & sucked & vacuumed the outside drain line found some mulch wood chips.
Also reset programmable thermostat.
The unit is now working more normal providing cooling air inside. The condensing unit is cycling on & off at about 15 to 20 minute cycles, while the inside unit never shuts off.
Could it be because it is likely overcharged? Because of my bone head haste!!
I need a new battery for my digital thermometer, which I'm havin problems finding!
Does anyone or Houston 204 still think I need to replace the defrost circuit board? #1087952, CEPL 130547-01 05 27
It also has the other board which appears to be an electronic thermostat, I'm not sure # E61 Thermostat 26-05-004,
Carrier 108897 E61 300000-1
Thanks in advance for you help
JZHJR
|
| | theduke03
| "Re(1):Help please! Houston 204 Tempstar short" , posted Fri 9 May 18:43
This is no guessing game. You must determine where you are losing the 24v and then why. On a call for cooling Y will be energized w/24v from stat. this 24v powers the contactor thus running compressor. If no 24v at contactor then start working backwards till you find the 24v. You have already determined that it is not the pressure switch by jumping it at the board. I have already determined that it's not the float switch. The only thing left is the board. If you are going to be doing service calls you may want to enhance those meter skills.
"My dad was the most feared furnace fighter in Northern Indiana."
|
| | jzhjr
|  "Tempstar working now with issues!!"
, posted Fri 9 May 22:21
Well it operated all day and the inside unit began cycling on & off as if everything was ok, up until about 3 hours ago when the renter called saying she had water puddling up around the return duct & in the garage at the air handler. Turns out I didn't push the condensate safety switch all the way in as its partially obstructed by armaflex from another pipe. Anyway the drain was sucked out with a vacuum again, and while all this was going on a neighbor came by and said he had similar problems & found some spackling globs & pieces of drywall in his & that he used some bleach to disolve it. So at this point my wife tried it cause I'm at work & sure enough she got a bunch of more solids & more mulch chunks out of the drain near the outside unit. So tomorrow I'll pull the panels off the air handler & clean the evaporator coils "A" frame, evaporator tray & drain, Also I'll use coil cleaner on the outside condensor unit then adjust the over charging using the superheat method. It does have a TXV metering device!! The instructions say to remove in 4 to 6 oz. increments, I have a scale for weighing during charge, but I'm not sure how I can calculate discharge because I don't have recovery equipment, only a vacuum pump!!! Any suggestions?
As for the low voltage loss I only don't have it present when the outside unit cuts off. I checked power to the defrost coil when the condensor unit shuts off & still had 26vac.
JZHJR
|
| | Houston204
| "Re(1):Tempstar working now with issues!!" , posted Sun 11 May 23:26
I'd say it's your float switch locking out due to poor drainage.
"Tip of the Day" Remember to remove power first.
|
| | jzhjr
| "Re(2):Tempstar working now with issues!!" , posted Mon 12 May 00:19
I think it was the float switch all along! Yesterday morning I went back & tried to do things right, Cleaned the evap coil, Cond coil both with coil cleaner, again verified a very clean drain pipe, no more junk in it, then closed all back up & ran for about 30 minutes.
Here are my readings:R-22 system with TXV
Inside wet bulb +67 F, Outside condensor inlet dry +91.3,
Low press 72 psig +43 F
High press 215 psig +106 F
High press line temp +91.8 F covered
Low press line temp +66 F under armaflex insulated
Do you think its overcharged?
JZHJR
|
| | Houston204
| "Re(3):Tempstar working now with issues!!" , posted Mon 12 May 01:02
23 superheat and 14 degree subcool. Probably okay. Does the outdoor unit nomenclature list the correct subcool?
I usually see a 9 to 16 degree subcool listed.
"Tip of the Day" Remember to remove power first.
|
| | Houston204
| "Re(5):Tempstar working now with issues!!" , posted Fri 16 May 19:02
What is your temperature drop across the evaporator coil?
You want 18 degrees.
"Tip of the Day" Remember to remove power first.
|
|
|
|  |
|
"Re(4):Tempstar working now with issues!!"