Unresolved issue for Plus 90 Control Board - http://www.hvacmechanic.com/ Forums
Original message
| Plus90
 |  "Unresolved issue for Plus 90 Control Board"
, posted Thu 9 Oct 16:23  
Carrier, Payne, Day & Night, etc. Plus90 398AAZ
For those who care 398AAZ036080AAKA, Series A, 4990A08250
The original discussion can be found at http://www.hvacmechanic.com/forums/resservice/messages/29928.htm . I've been adding to the discussion, but the thread seems to be inactive. I hope that this renewed post will encourage some further discussion.
The thermostat can operate the blower and an independent A/C. Power is delivered to the system, there have been some minor physical problems, but everything seems to indicate that the control board is at least one of the problems. Tried to create a vaccum to see if we could bypass the board. No other physical restrictions on parts, they just don't seem to be getting power (from the board).
My current board looks like this:
http://www.xan2.com/images/default.htm (Sorry that it is blurry)
When I called for a replacement, I was sent a Carrier CES0110057-02 Circuit board. The board size is much larger than the existing board. The Carrier supplier insists that the circuit board is correct. I have not removed the board from the static protective envelope. Here's an image: http://www.myhvacparts.com/Catalogue/Printed%20Circuit%20Boards/Bryant%20%20Control%20Board%20CESO%20110057.htm
I do not think that this is the correct board. I'm leaning towards a board replacing the the Carrier Control Board HH84AA021 (ICM 275C).
Here's an image http://www.myhvacparts.com/Catalogue/Printed%20Circuit%20Boards/Carrier%20HH84AA021%20Control%20Board.htm
There are no Carrier dealers near me - I purchased a board from a Trane dealer (no returns - I'm stuck if I'm wrong).
After some back and forth, this is the best that I have from my discussions with the trane dealer.
"Considering I have talked to two different parts personnel from Carrier/Bryant - both told me the board you received is the correct one and I talked with a tech at the Carrier/Bryant tech line - he told me the board you received is the correct one - I have to believe you do indeed have the correct board for you furnace. My guess would be the board has probably been upgraded a few times considering the age of your furnace.
"The tech told me something like it has gone from a mechanical board to an electronic board."
Other issues.
I've some some cleanup in the fashion described in the following thread. "After looking the [pilot assembly] over, I removed the bracket that mounted it to the burners, and noticed some corrosion between the two mating surfaces (the circuit is grounded through the equipment (i.e. the mounting bracket)). I sanded both sides down, reinstalled it, and POOF! again." See 80/forum/hvac/5731-bryant-plus90-won-t-ignite-main-burners.html" TARGET=_blank>http 80/forum/hvac/5731-bryant-plus90-won-t-ignite-main-burners.html
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Replies:
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| emb157
| "Re(1):Unresolved issue for Plus 90 Control Bo" , posted Tue 14 Oct 09:59
You are correct you need the HH84AA021. There is an ICM replacement but I don't have the number on me. The CES011057 board is not for this furnace.
Also there is no onboard diagnostics on that board.
If you have any water leaking then the unit should be replaced per the Bulletin.
There are some companies replacing the furnace regardless and claiming a failure to get the customer a better deal, maybe you can locate one of those companies to give you a replacement price.
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| jmar
| "Re(1):Unresolved issue for Plus 90 Control Bo" , posted Thu 9 Oct 19:41
this is the correct board your old board incorporated relays the new one micropessor controls. The harness plug is the same as the old. Follow the instructions its not that hard. No offense but if your having this much confusion over such a simple thing call a pro. You have a very old furnace probably mid 80's the board you have now has gone through several revisions since then. If you follow the instructions it will walk you right thru if there are none, then there are no other necessary steps to take hook it up wire to wire.
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| | wondering
| "Re(2):Unresolved issue for Plus 90 Control Bo" , posted Thu 9 Oct 23:08
Now that numbers are up, your furnace is 1990 with the pilot assembly that should be replaced every five years so it does nor ruin the control board on the side(LH33WZ513A). The corect board number is the HH84AA021 that goes in front of the blower. The replacement board is the same size with different relays on it. The CES is for late 91 and final year 92 furnaces with HSI. The 398s need to have the secondary checked for leaks as the last 14 or so I checked 2 have passed. If you want to run a furnace with a leaking heat exchanger get a good CO detector and a smoke detector along with life insurance.
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| | Plus90
| "Re(3):Unresolved issue for Plus 90 Control Bo" , posted Fri 10 Oct 05:22
Thanks Wondering,
I'm not sure why the carrier rep kept telling the Trane dealer that the Carrier CES0110057-02 was the correct board. The Carrier rep was told the full model number, I'm not sure why they dug in their heels. They also refused to take the part back, even though it is still in the static bag and has not been taken out of the box. We were stiffed with a delivery charge after the fact. I'm hoping there is an aftermarket and I'm glad I never opened the bag.
I'm going to have a gas certified tech work on the equipment, but he does not work on carrier/bryant equipment on a regular basis. He pointed out the difference in the CES0110057-02 to the old board.
I'm not in a good financial position to be buying multiple boards, it seemed that the ICM 275C (or HH84AA021) would be the correct board (I think the C is for a clamshell housing for the board). However, I did not want to be stuck buying multiple boards. The ICM 275C appears to be a $50 - $100 board on the Internet. The CES0110057-02 set me back about $225.
Considering a $50 - $100 board is in about the same range as an hour of tech time, getting the right board, in advance, should be well worth the money. We'll see what the locals charge for the board (any bets that it will be $ 100 - $200 instead of $50 - $100?).
Once we get the board replaced, I'm still not in the home stretch. Thanks for your comments on the exchanger. The visual inspection won't be a substitute for a check once the system is operational. I'll have the tech check for leaks.
I've seen some of the lawsuit details about the potential for cracked or leaking heat exchanger. I think the settlement is a credit for a new heat exchanger. CO2 detector and smoke detector are in the vicinity (I can move the CO2 detector to an outlet [battery backup] closer to the furnace. Should the detector be on the same floor as the furnace or on the floor above?
We had multiple CO2 detectors, but the battery power on one would set off the full alarm when the battery let out. Without my glasses I could not find the battery chamber. I had to drag the noisy device out into the daylight (middle of the summer) and try to get the battery out before the stupid thing would stop blasting. What a terrible "feature." On the plus side, the alarm got the attention of all the neighbors.
The newer detector has a digital readout, for CO2 levels prior to alarm.
Glad to have found this discussion board.
Thanks for your help!
Need to get warm soon.
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| | Zzz
| "Re(4):Unresolved issue for Plus 90 Control Bo" , posted Sun 12 Oct 11:01
This board will work just hook the wires up to the same terminals, boards are not all that complicated they open the gas valve and turn on the fan, you can make them from individual parts quite easily.
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| | wondering
| "Re(6):Unresolved issue for Plus 90 Control Bo" , posted Wed 15 Oct 12:51
The inducer kit is an upgrade and you have to add the extra wire that comes in the kit. Replacing the pilot to save the board is good, and most likely stay with the same electrode.
I know of no glow coil on that furnace, glow coils were on way old systems with that same pilot assembly or the two wire one.
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| | Plus90
| "Re(7):Unresolved issue for Plus 90 Control Bo" , posted Thu 16 Oct 05:32
Thanks,
All of the parts are here already. I did notice the extra wire in a separate bag.
I picked up the pilot assembly because of the advice above (with all of the cost of boards, why not make sure the pilot assebly is up to snuff). The tech mentioned a "glow coil" but I did not see one referenced when I saw what similar purchasers of parts were buying.
It's great to have this discussion board. It helped me avoid breaking the seal on the wrong board. Despite the Carrier suppliers claim that the the board would not be taken back, the board was taken back once another carrier dealer agreed that the first carrier supplier had shipped the wrong board to the Trane Dealer. The first supplier had the full information about the board. Their steadfast refusal to find the right part could have resulted in a more expensive series of visits.
The repair has resulted in multiple service calls as we slowly identify the various problems. Once the proper board was in place, I think we fell back to a more common set of circumstances that I have seen in other discussions.
I might have made it through another winter without the second board and pilot assembly, but a full failure of the inducer kit was near. In terms of parts replacement it is hundreds of dollars. Better to get the service while it is still warm outside.
I will be up to four service calls for the last replacement of items (no sense in risking self service for the last few items, because I need trained eyes to see the full system back in operation). The mechanical parts do not have any significant flaws, despite their flaws.
At the end of the ordeal, the service and parts were in the mid hundreds, not the thousands. I have been able to identify service and supplies in a region in which carrier does not indicate nearby dealers.
I now have a Trane Dealer on standby. The next call beyond a checkup will be the purchase of a new system. I'll want to make sure it is from a company that has local parts and service.
Need to get warm soon.
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