No heat zone 2(upstairs)

Problems related to residential installations.

No heat zone 2(upstairs)

Postby Silverjwj » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:12 pm

So here's the deal. I have a boiler, I had noise in my pipes upstairs. I assumed it was air, cause my expansion tank seemed fine. I have a little Hvac back ground but not a whole lot with boilers. I went to bleed out the air and now have no heat upstairs. I'm baffled. On my return side of the boiler I have three circulater pumps for each zone. Ones for hot water, one for downstairs and one for ustairsp. Each has a ball valve above and be low and above all three is a spicket for bleeding air. I hook the hose to it. Close down other two zones. (which I didn't do at first) and open the spicket with the upstairs zone running. I get nothing. I hear hissing but don't see bubbles in the water. The pump is on and hot to touch. The lines are cold. I close the ball valve above the pump (which I'm not sure if you are supposed to, but only for a few seconds) so it only has the spicket route to go and still nothing. Above the expansion tank I had water start spraying out? Is that normal?. Any input is appreciated. Thanks
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- No heat zone 2(upstairs)

Postby Freon » Mon Nov 04, 2013 5:53 pm

First, you need to make sure all valves on each heating zone are open. Do you know how to open a ball valve? USUALLY, with the handle in the same direction as the pipes in and out of the valve means it's open

With the valves set to open, call for heat to the 2nd floor. Does the circulation pump run on the 2nd floor heating circuit? CAREFULLY feel the return flow pipe on that pump... it should be hot. If it's not hot you need to check the pump closely.

Tell us the make/model of the expansion tank. Then we'll see if the behavior you describe is normal.
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- No heat zone 2(upstairs)

Postby Silverjwj » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:02 pm

Thanks for your response. I do know how a ball valve works. I actually build industrial boilers for a living, but have never trouble shot any. The unit worked fine before I tried purging it myself.Iit just had noisy pipes. I knew a little bit about it, so figured Id learn from experience. Did a lot of research before I dove into it, so I had a good idea how to do it, but didn't seem to go as planned. All I did was hook a hose up to the upstairs circuit, turned it on and got a little water then nothing. My pressure didn't drop or anything. If I go upstairs I can hear water circulating through. Just not hot water. The return was hot when I started. I will try to get the tank info in a bit. I have a friend coming who was a hvac tech who knows little more then I do. When I go back down ill get it. I attempted the same thing with the downstairs and had the same results as the upstairs. Return got cold after a bit, but it still heats. Was trying to save a buck, but will most likely be calling someone tomorrow if we cant figure it out.
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- No heat zone 2(upstairs)

Postby Freon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:51 pm

Usually to bleed the air on the 2nd floor circuit you will need to find the bleed valve on that loop. It should be at the highest point on the 2nd floor. It may be at the elbow where the vertical line coming upstairs from the basement turns horizontally to feed the radiators/baseboard. If you hear water in the 2nd floor circuit you should feel some heat.
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- No heat zone 2(upstairs)

Postby Silverjwj » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:25 pm

That was the first thing I checked for. The original owner installed it him self and he only put one in the downstairs. I don't understand why. I wasn't getting enough pressure to get the air out so I did a power purge. Talk about air in the lines. One thing that concerns me tho is when I was bleeding the lines at the boiler my pressure didn't drop at all. It stayed at 15, and I took a lot of water out. After a while the pipes started to bang and my temp gauge on the boiler was jumping up with each bang. Do you know why? I shut the boiler off when I could smell my own ***** in the air and the temp went down and it was fine after that. I still have some air in the lines but I have good heat upstairs now. Next summer I'm going to put a purge in upstairs. This weekend I will repeat what I did and hopefully get the rest of the air.
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- No heat zone 2(upstairs)

Postby Freon » Thu Nov 07, 2013 2:37 pm

I am not sure what was causing the banging but it was some pressure pulse and that's why the pressure gauge bounced. Possibly there was boiling happening in some parts of the boiler.

You have a water feed pressure valve. As you removed water purging the 2nd floor, new water was coming into the system. That's why the head pressure stayed constant

If there is any air in the first floor loop it will eventually migrate upstairs. I strongly recommend you close off the feed water and drain a few gallons from the system. All you need is the top loop empty and maybe 6" down the vertical line from the basement. Then replace the 90 degree elbow where the feed line (vertical pipe) comes into the 2nd floor line (horizontal) with an bleed valve elbow. It should take 60 minutes if you have easy access to the connection point. Then you can bleed the system completely over the next several weeks.
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